I'm doing better today. I'm trying not to think about the future beyond determining what I can actually DO about it. And I've decided I'm not going to do the homeless thing, if it gets that bad, I'm going to bail. Surprisingly, that decision is like a huge relief and lets me focus my energy on what I need to do.
I did have some insight this morning about that whole no talking rule. I think I spent most of my childhood protecting my family from the truth, from what was really going on but ended up pushing them away because of it, and now I'm completely estranged from them, and somehow got the idea that was love; i.e., love means protecting people from your own pain. I suppose there may be some truth to that, I mean love certainly isn't dumping all your pain on other people.
Is love protecting other people from your pain?
And I do know talking about my childhood stuff does push people away. So, I just push them away instead, how is that better?
As a child it definitely wasn't my responsibility to protect the adults around me and now as an adult, I'm realizing it still isn't my responsibility to protect the adults in my life--they will undoubtedly protect themselves. And given the anti-victim climate that exists, plenty of people will reject me if I'm more honest about my past, and what I'm going through right now, but I think the one thing I was never allowed and still don't allow myself is the truth of my own experience.
I work really hard on being truthful with myself but have given up on being truthful with others, primarily to protect them, and yeah, to stay away from rejection.
Ironically, I really love and am drawn to people who are honest and open but don't give myself that freedom. It's too ingrained in me that my honesty is somehow harmful to other people and it's so important to me not to harm others.
Well, that's my catch-22, isn't it?
I need the freedom to be honest about my own experience but I don't want to harm others. I suppose that means I need to respect others need to remove themselves and trust other adults to take care of themselves. Does that make sense? Am I missing something here?
I did have some insight this morning about that whole no talking rule. I think I spent most of my childhood protecting my family from the truth, from what was really going on but ended up pushing them away because of it, and now I'm completely estranged from them, and somehow got the idea that was love; i.e., love means protecting people from your own pain. I suppose there may be some truth to that, I mean love certainly isn't dumping all your pain on other people.
Is love protecting other people from your pain?
And I do know talking about my childhood stuff does push people away. So, I just push them away instead, how is that better?
As a child it definitely wasn't my responsibility to protect the adults around me and now as an adult, I'm realizing it still isn't my responsibility to protect the adults in my life--they will undoubtedly protect themselves. And given the anti-victim climate that exists, plenty of people will reject me if I'm more honest about my past, and what I'm going through right now, but I think the one thing I was never allowed and still don't allow myself is the truth of my own experience.
I work really hard on being truthful with myself but have given up on being truthful with others, primarily to protect them, and yeah, to stay away from rejection.
Ironically, I really love and am drawn to people who are honest and open but don't give myself that freedom. It's too ingrained in me that my honesty is somehow harmful to other people and it's so important to me not to harm others.
Well, that's my catch-22, isn't it?
I need the freedom to be honest about my own experience but I don't want to harm others. I suppose that means I need to respect others need to remove themselves and trust other adults to take care of themselves. Does that make sense? Am I missing something here?
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Re: More about talking
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 3:07 PMDora can tell you about how I have lurked here a long time before I cut loose on any thing much about my self... I still got comfort just seeing people of like il tying to coup and watching other helping... -
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Re: More about talking
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 9:42 PMUm, Scotty, who's Dora?
And Struggling, OMG, can I relate to you! Most of my early life was about making things easier on my parents, etc., but in retrospect, I cheated them out of the opportunity to deepen our relationship - maybe it would have, maybe it wouldn't, but by not sharing, by making the decision, I cheated us both out of what could have changed the way we related to one another. Either way, deciding what someone can take or can't is fairly paternalistic - we become martyrs because we can take the pain others can't.
I kept the fact that I had been molested when I was 12 from my mother because I KNEW she couldn't handle it. She probably couldn't have, but at 12, I was already put in the position of having to take care of my mother! That is bullshit on so many levels. I hear you - very clearly. The fact is that I still decide what information I share with others, but it's based on ME, not them. Anything else is crazy. You are not responsible for the whole world. No - you're not! Not even part of it; you are responsible for yourself. Believe me, do that, and it's more than enough!!!
Also, you may be free to talk about your childhood issues here. It's a safe place. I won't run, and I'm pretty sure the others won't either. We've pretty much heard it all...so don't think you'll shock us. You'll move us, but not shock us. At this point in the game, we're pretty shock-proof. (Just remember to put a caveat at the beginning of a post that it might be triggering...) -
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Re: More about talking
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 11:44 PMDora the Explorer... of course.... -
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heres a poem for you..i love this one, by emily dickinson..
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 5:00 AMPart Four: Time and Eternity
SOME, too fragile for winter winds,
The thoughtful grave encloses,—
Tenderly tucking them in from frost
Before their feet are cold.
Never the treasures in her nest 5
The cautious grave exposes,
Building where schoolboy dare not look
And sportsman is not bold.
This covert have all the children
Early aged, and often cold,— 10
Sparrows unnoticed by the Father;
Lambs for whom time had not a fold.
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i once... by me...hahahaha
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 5:11 AMI once saw,
or Saw, I thought,
A girl whose truth,
Once died,
Neatly and so, quickly
So quick, too fast for one to have seen, though see i did,
Even when i thought i saw,
would you...would you see it
If you could try,
If allowed, would you let it pass you by?
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Re: More about talking
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 6:35 AMor you could just hang out with the rare weirdos like me who don't mind talking to you about your childhood stuff, :)
sumtimes the problem isn't that you are doing things wrong, somtimes it's just that you're around peaple who do things a difrent way and don't agree with the way you ar doing things.
i belive very firmly in facing not walowing in, or runing from , or trying to forget our problems and trials, but embrasing them as a part of our past, a part of what made us and learning thats thats ok,
ya , it hapend, bummer, but just cals it hert you then dosn't meen that it will hert others now.
you can't always blame your self for the way others react to what comes natural to you.
be your self and NOT everyone will like you, but thats ok, it's like a screening proses so you don't have to waste your time and energy asociating with peaple who will just make you regret more.
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Re: More about talking
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 8:33 AMYeah, the childhood stuff is tough but life can be relentless sometimes, and the problem with the past is it affects my ability to cope with the challenges of the present. And the present is pretty tough in itself, I mean I've basically had everything I loved and valued stripped away from me.
I have always thought we should face challenges. In fact, I have felt for a long time that the reason we are in so much trouble politically and economically is because of our tendency to avoid problems, to escape rather than confront.
Now, I have a lot more respect for people who feel like they just can't cope with everything that is going on in the world and manage their own lives. Still with everything in my own life I can't somehow choose to live that way but I definitely understand it better.
I guess the advantage of being more open about my experience is I might find the occasional weirdo :-) who could hang. -
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Re: More about talking
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 10:50 AMWeirdos R Us! My husband says that "Everybody is somebody else's weirdo."
One phrase that has helped me considerably is that "whatever has happened in the past doesn't have to define you." Take a look, struggling at how much space and energy you are allowing old stuff. Yes, it's painful and probably won't get exorcized until you have taken a good hard look at it and put it away. Please don't think I am minimizing your experiences - not at all. But you must fight for your life, against what has gone on before, to establish and define yourself NOW. YOU get to say who and what you are - not your past. YOU are in charge now - you weren't when you were little. Your experiences dominated your life then - you don't have to allow them to do it now.
I can hear you saying "ALLOW? I don't allow them to dominate my life, they just do!" There is an element of seduction in depression. Somehow it makes us not want to fight it. I talk a good talk, but I, too, get sucked into stuff. I have learned to interrupt "the slide" when I can by NOT giving in to the familiar old thoughts. Go to the library and check out books on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. There might be some stuff online, but mostly it's "BUY MY BOOK!" or somesuch. I think Ally Rosy listed some good sites on this, though, so check them out.
Mostly, know that YOU ARE NOT ALONE. (And I'm not talkin' X-Files stuff here. I'm talkin' us here at this tribe!!!) -
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Re: More about talking
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 11:52 AMLOL, x-files. Unfortunately, I think I fell into the trap of thinking I should *just get over it*. Six (?) years ago I was assaulted on my street during a snow storm and even though I got away from the guy and got to my neighbor for help it triggered a whole set of flashbacks and I really fell apart, my marriage broke up, I started having trouble in grad school. I was very tight (or so I thought) with a group of people in my community. I reached out for help, talked about it, was in therapy, etc.
The weird thing is that it seemed to make everything worse. My friends couldn't deal with it at all. One (talking about the assault) asked me how I brought it on. Others told me to stop wallowing, get over it, etc. It was really nightmarish. And even though intellectually I knew I needed to talk about it, that I wasn't doing anything wrong, in my heart I felt ashamed, I felt like a failure, I knew I was losing the respect of people who had been very important to me, and subconsciously I picked up the get over it message all too well.
Up until the last few weeks, I haven't talked about this stuff in years, to anyone. Far from wallowing, I think I've slipped into a weird quasi state of denial. And now it's like being hit with a tidal wave...there's a great line from a movie: "You may be done with the past but that doesn't mean the past is done with you." That's what I've discovered. I want to put the past behind me but it has me in a vice grip and I really don't understand why.
So, I just don't know where to go from here. Until the assault and all the nightmare afterwards (losing my marraige, my home, etc.) I thought I had it all figured out. I'd been in therapy, I'd done the work, I was a survivor success story. Now, I don't know if that was just a facade that tragedy ripped away or if I really was on the right track but just got overwhelmed by life's challenges and the lack of good support. -
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Re: More about talking
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 3:15 PMWhoa - that's a lot to deal with, especially when you do the "right" things and feel your support system erode beneath you. It's sad but true: there are very FEW people you can count on, and the only person you can really count on is yourself.
What has worked for me is to look at the stuff but not push it away - to embrace some of this very hard stuff. Despite how you FEEL, you are STILL a survivor success story. Yes, you are. It depends, though, on how you define success. Success to me is really SURVIVING the trauma, you don't have to feel good about it. You survived it, and anything you did TO survive it is a good thing. If you had to split, prostitute yourself, steal, lie - whatever - YOU SURVIVED. People who have survived natural disasters didn't feel good about it because they then had to face clean up and rebuilding. That's where you are. You have the strength to do this - the hardest part is already over - you have survived. That's HUGE.
Now what you have to do is keep rebuilding. Maybe you used faulty material before. Maybe you should have someone look over your plans. But you don't have to be alone (just call me Agent Mulder - b/c I can't remember the other one's name!) but you do need to find your tribe. Starting here is an excellent start and a good support, but it's not all the work you need to do. You are gonna be ok - I can tell b/c you have gotten this far, are still articulate and know what to do. That does not mean it won't be hard, which sucks.
I'm here, and so are caring others. Please PM me if the need or want arises. -
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Re: More about talking
Sun, July 6, 2008 - 10:46 PMit sounds like you survived prety well, you stood up to the storm, and you rebuilt the parts of you that the storm blew away
it sounds like your freinds are the ones who couldn't handle it, couldn't adapt.
you described them as a suport system that failed, sound more like they wer a group of co-dependent normals, who revected ther freind as soon as she had a problem that lay outside ther pre aranged set of normalsy tolerences levels.
that may be to harsh a judgment against your freinds, but i have a serius pet peev against peaple who can't "hang" :)
somthing that should be kept in mind when listening to my advise :)
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Re: More about talking
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 12:30 AM"Never compromise yourself, because its the only thing you have." - Janis Joplin
Never compromise your feelings, how you react to things, what you feel about things, and realise youre always welcome to correspond with this weirdro....hugs...when the support systems fall away, just try to hold onto it as a transcition, and a time for you to build up your own spirit...the inner self....people are unreliable....but there will always be another, and another...even if there are large lonely gaps of time to pass before the next....youll be ok....
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