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I am curious on what you're thoughts are on the advice "letting go". I understand things that are in the past can't be changed, but I have a difficult time understanding and practicing this advice. One person specifically stated that it refers to the anger one feels about a circumstance that happened. The term letting go particularly refers to releasing anger. I am curious to other interpretations, however, the message board we were speaking about it on in my opinion is not a safe space to speak. This is why I bring this question to you intelligent folks, I feel safe here (thank you for that).
Part of my depression is about repressing anger, and turning it against myself. I am fairly clear headed these days, so I can see this clearly and can cope more effectively with my "Dr. Jekel" who is the part of my brain that blames myself. I have developed a more full view of the circumstances in my life that lead to my depression, feminism has particularly helped me.
In my particular situation, the past, the thing that mostly upsets my in my life (my abusive father) continues to be an active part of my life. I remain attach to the situation in protection of my younger siblings, and due to financial reasons (which I have been slowing correcting and may be unattached soon).
The problem lies in the fact that every time he does something controlling, towards me OR towards my younger siblings, I get confused and angry again, rehashing the whole series of complicated scenarios in which the abuse occurred. This is what abusers goals are, of course... The full scope of the abusive relationships with my entire family that this man holds can be overwhelming, and I am only now coming to terms with the fact that it was abuse at all.
My final diagnosis with my doctor wasn't depression after a year (although I definitely had depression) , but that I have a precursor of post traumatic stress disorder, due to the emotional abuse of my father. This was a surprise to me, because, like most people who are depressed, i believed it was my fault that I was depressed and angry my entire life, but I see clearer now that it was the emotional abuse that ripped my self esteem away.
Now I feel I have to separate the two ideas - the anger I feel and have control of (It takes up a good chunk of my thoughts during the day, I cope with this with juggling), and the actions of my father.
How can one let go of anger when it is currently happening?
What does it mean to have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in this situation, and how does it tie into letting go?
How do you practice letting go yourself?
I have a few practices that I do to let go of ruminating thoughts one is
- "I already made that decision"
and yesterday it was
- " forgiveness and compassion for myself for having this anger"
- "forgiveness and compassion to the hurting man my father is"
the first one aides my own self esteem (because I seem to feel anger is a character flaw) and the second, well it hasn't worked yet, but it stops me from ruminating IN the anger in the moment, which calms me down...
any thoughts, experiences, ideas?
Part of my depression is about repressing anger, and turning it against myself. I am fairly clear headed these days, so I can see this clearly and can cope more effectively with my "Dr. Jekel" who is the part of my brain that blames myself. I have developed a more full view of the circumstances in my life that lead to my depression, feminism has particularly helped me.
In my particular situation, the past, the thing that mostly upsets my in my life (my abusive father) continues to be an active part of my life. I remain attach to the situation in protection of my younger siblings, and due to financial reasons (which I have been slowing correcting and may be unattached soon).
The problem lies in the fact that every time he does something controlling, towards me OR towards my younger siblings, I get confused and angry again, rehashing the whole series of complicated scenarios in which the abuse occurred. This is what abusers goals are, of course... The full scope of the abusive relationships with my entire family that this man holds can be overwhelming, and I am only now coming to terms with the fact that it was abuse at all.
My final diagnosis with my doctor wasn't depression after a year (although I definitely had depression) , but that I have a precursor of post traumatic stress disorder, due to the emotional abuse of my father. This was a surprise to me, because, like most people who are depressed, i believed it was my fault that I was depressed and angry my entire life, but I see clearer now that it was the emotional abuse that ripped my self esteem away.
Now I feel I have to separate the two ideas - the anger I feel and have control of (It takes up a good chunk of my thoughts during the day, I cope with this with juggling), and the actions of my father.
How can one let go of anger when it is currently happening?
What does it mean to have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in this situation, and how does it tie into letting go?
How do you practice letting go yourself?
I have a few practices that I do to let go of ruminating thoughts one is
- "I already made that decision"
and yesterday it was
- " forgiveness and compassion for myself for having this anger"
- "forgiveness and compassion to the hurting man my father is"
the first one aides my own self esteem (because I seem to feel anger is a character flaw) and the second, well it hasn't worked yet, but it stops me from ruminating IN the anger in the moment, which calms me down...
any thoughts, experiences, ideas?
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Re: letting go
Mon, May 11, 2009 - 4:17 PMI've always had trouble telling the difference between (letting go and letting die)
me I'm still working on that one.
Patrick
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Re: letting go
Mon, May 11, 2009 - 4:40 PMBoy, *CAN I RELATE* !!
I've heard of the "let go" advice for along time,
and, while I HAVE successfully let go of many things,
many others are a work in progress and are unlikely
that I will be able to let go of.
First, I'll share advice that I leraned in counseling;
and that is to remove people in your life that
are toxic, if at all possible. I'm not saying this is
easy; it takes work and effort, but I've done it
with many people in my life who I realized were
never going to treat me with respect and consideration.
I had been locked into a belief (a fantasy)
that if I could get these people to read a book
or get counseling, that they would
"change" and we could have an adult, positive,
functioning relationship. My counselor helped
me realize that this was a FANTASY, and that these
people were NEVER going to do this, and that
I need to put my mental health ahead of trying
to have relationships with these type of people.
I have PTSD as well, although it was pretty obvious.
My dad's behavior caused me to develop
precursors, so that it was highly liklly that
in later years I would develop full blown PTSD.
I'm working on my PTSD, ....
I'm a functioning person again, but the
triggers are still there, the anger is a constatnt
companion in my life, and are things that I, too
struggle with day to day. Meds have helped in a big
way here, I have a dramatic lessening of the circular thinking that
goes along with this typically, so I am able to function now.
I have always had ways to manage my anger,
but I've found that they were not fully up to the task
of managing PTSD level of anger.
With the meds, they've become a helper again.
I find excersize, heavy metal, and videogames
a great management tool.
MY dad is a toxic, negative, anxiety-ridden
person with control issues as well;
and I worked for a person who was truly meglomaniacal.
Be gentle with yourself, realize that what you feel
is normal, and a protective response to these kinds of people.
I FINALLY quiet working for the MM ass, although it took time.
My father is still in my life, but I'm working on that, too.
Do NOT blame yourself for anger. It is NOT a charactar flaw,
it is a normal, healthy human emotion. Like I said, it's
a protective reaction. Find a positive way to vent it. FEEL
it. Don't shove it away. It's a powerful feeling, and you
may be able to channel some of that energy into
dealing with the toxic person/people in your life
in a more powerful, assertive way.
I have been able (mostly) to be in a forgiving place
relating to my father, realizing the environ he
came up in has caused him to be the person he
is; and that, in his essence, he is not a bad person.
I have off days, too, like any human, and there
are days I hate him and acknowledge him as a pure
ass. Don't beat yourself up; it's just part of the
process. The less I have to deal with him, the
easier forgivness is, the more I have to deal with him,
the more it's hard. Try to find something to help
you detox from when you have to deal with him.
Realize that you ARE being played when you're dealing with him.
You may or may not be able to react in a heathier way, but
go in, knowing you're being manipulated. even if it's after the fact,
you can modulate your response to the control and abuse.
Realize the person you're delaing with is *S-I-C-K*
really, really sick.
This makes it easier to be gentle with yourself.
You've already made some hefty, positive steps.
being able to squelch/calm down while you're feeling the anger
with a perception is HUGE. *I'm* still working on that.
Things are a PROCESS. You may be able to "release" anger
someday, but first you learn MANAGEMENT. Even if you
only get to the managemnet step, it's huge in and unto itself.
Shoot for ideals, but be kind to yourself as well and realize
you do the best you can at the moment.
I'll stop typing now (!) and let you respond / ask ?s -
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Re: letting go
Tue, May 12, 2009 - 10:42 AMHey Ray,
That is really helpful. On some level I am also looking for validation, or just someone to talk to who's experienced this.
Removing toxic people - or at least taking space is definitely helpful. It's not fully possible to remove him from my life at this time, although I am working on it. I am unsure if I would have to completely remove him from my life, or if I could have a distant relationship with him. I have been aiming for the later, but it is true that I cannot trust this man.
My family is still in denial of the emotional abuse, and this makes it more difficult.
I soon face a confrontation with my Dad as we are moving my sister from his place to mine. Typing this out makes me realize how this man has destabilized me recently due to our contact because of this move.
in fact, you've given me a clearer picture on why I am so confused. It is part of the whole game.
Remembering that he is a manipulator is difficult when I speak to him. He is my dad, you know, and I am one of many children that see him as so, and the only child who speaks out about the abuse.
you've framed this nice and clear. Again, falling prey to lies in my life. I need to find way to make myself stronger when dealing with my father specifically.
Wish me strength in the next few months while I sort the remainder of this move out. -
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Re: letting go
Tue, May 12, 2009 - 11:32 AMThis is a great discussion.
I think one of the difficulties in dealing with families is the problem of hope. Yes, I said the problem of hope. For many, many long years, I struggled with my family because they would always have the potential for being the family I wanted, needed, craved. "Maybe this time" was such a mantra for me in those days that I'm surprised I didn't have it tattooed somewhere - wait, let me check - ok, no, it's not there. I think it was TS Eliot who referred to hope as "his bitterest foe" (though in typing that I am thinking how distinctly UN-Eliot like that sounds). Hope can be a terri ble curse to those of us who cling to it despite the odds - or evidence to the contrary. We are taught that people can (and will) change. We want to believe that. We want to believe it about ourselves, too.
Hope is the drug of the desperate. It makes us think and believe that things can be different if we just (fill in the blank). We do it to ourselves, unconcsciously, seeking that high that comes before the eventual crash of reality.
I know this sounds bleak - and perhaps it is. But without hope, we are destined to die, withering on this vine of depression. We hope because life without it is unbearable. We hope that tomorrow can be different from today. We hope that the next interaction with someone who's hurt us won't be one in a series of endless repeats. We hope because in things being different, we can be different. -
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Re: letting go
Tue, May 12, 2009 - 12:21 PMi struggle with "letting go" too... i really don't know how to let go of things, although i try all the time. one of the visualizations that sometimes helps me is simply picturing myself placing whatever it is into a box or bag, and then picturing myself just simply putting the box down, or away on a shelf at least. my counselor used to tell me that "letting go" is something you can't try to do, you just do it. i could never figure that out but i think he's right, somehow.
and very interesting points about hope, darla. i feel so much that hope is my enemy, as it always ends up in disappointment, or worse. i don't ever want to get my hopes up, it's just too much to bear. i hate hope, and yet i can't find anything to live for without it.
i was discussing this just yesterday with my current counselor and he asked me to try to see hope as kind of a hot potato-- meaning, i need to have it with me in my hand, but if i grasp firmly to it and get attached to it, it will burn me again and again. he said the trick is to be aware of it and brush against it for inspiration, but to also move away from it quickly before expectations develop that will lead to disappointment.
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Re: letting go
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 11:26 AMI always struggle with the "letting go" of life. read checkin for this week...
i always expect the best out of people... not the worst. is that my problem? cause i get hurt a lot! i mean A LOT... cause i give of my self completely and all. sucks major! -
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Re: letting go
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 12:18 PMWow, Dreamer, I just had a very similar conversation with a good friend about the question you raised. All my life, I always gave people the benefit of the doubt, believed in the ultimate goodness of others, thought that I was on the same page with everyone else insofar as goodness went. I am seriously starting to think that I have lived my entire life under some seriously false beliefs, that being one of them. I always thought that people's natural inclination was toward good, but I am finding, at this late date, that this is not true. The good ones among us are the rare exception, NOT the rule by any stretch of the imagination.
That being said, I have utterly no idea how to change my way of being in the world. I don't know how to be in the world in a different way than is my longterm way. For me, this is nothing less than a "shipwreck" experience - you know, I never thought about it this way before, but I feel like Gilligan in a world of Mr. Howells. A lamb in sheep's clothing.
So hard. -
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Re: letting go & hope
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 12:39 AMOn hope: Hope is critical, but it's important to keep
it from taking control till you see things that don't exist.
I started my life believing as you you, being very positive
and believeing that most people are good.
This has NOT changed for me. I STILL believe this,
although I do hear a ringing in my ears... '*NAIEVE*
I have been screwed ALOT. I'm not sure I still have an ass left.
I CHOOSE to continue my beliefs, because it keeps me
from being as sick and twitsed as many other people are.
I *DO* believe that most people ARE good, just the same
as I believe this of my dad. It's just that all these people
are *SICK*. some ALOT, some, not so much.
I keep my guard up against all these people,
and I conciously modulate my level of caring towards these people,
so I don't get screwed again. I’ve also learned not to
“advertise” about my niceness, which I think is what people
pick up on. “Ooh, a nice person… SUCKER!”
I hate to say it, but it started to change after
getting some piercings and tattoos, and the goatee
I still try to be polite tho.
I choose to keep myself as myself and not become a sick freak.
Letting go: A very tough thing to do. Take things one at a time
learn, process, learn, process. Don't stop learning, don’t stop growing,
evolving.
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Re: letting go
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 2:17 PM> I always struggle with the "letting go" of life. read checkin for this week...
I think one of the things depression does to us it make it so we have trouble letting go of the past. We dwell on the negatives and keep them close. I still think about crap from as far back as childhood that I wish I could let go of.
> i always expect the best out of people...
Me too, and then I get all ticked off when they don't live up to expectations. I really wish I could expect the worst and then laugh at the crazy stuff people do. -
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Re: letting go
Thu, May 14, 2009 - 10:16 AMtotally interesting. I agree, I think the world is filled with good people, and realizing otherwise is difficult. I also realized how much my belief system differs from so many others when I was in my moral philosophy class this year. I was the only one who saw the deep connection to nature humans had (at least in that class). However, I was revalidated by my indigenous Indian philosophy class that others do see the world in a similar fashion as I do.
Depression does make things harder to let go of. Rumination on every negative and awkward moment I have ever had some days, yet others (when I am stronger) I can shake and go on about my day. Like I said, I already made that decision, and if anything I should have a good laugh at what fools all us humans are.
It is also the level of perfection I strive at. If I fail at something I am attempting to do (by not being perfect) then I hold onto that imperfection instead of what I accomplished...
It is a part of why I attempt to embrace the fool as the most basic part of human nature... it's a way more fun was of considering that which I can't let go. -
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Re: letting go
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 12:50 AMI've always held myself to high moral stnadards
and something that contributed to my breakdown
has been relalizing that I'm a freak in this,
and that most other people could care less.
If I'm not charged for something, 9 times
out of 10, I go back in the store and say you forgot
to scan this. Here's the $3 I owe you.
FREAKS people in line out, like they just
saw Jesus resurected.
Depression defenetly causes ruminations to be worse.
I've outgrown much of it, but I still occassionally
ponder regrets from 30 years ago.
Perfection: I was saddled with a high level of
perfectionism too (inherited, actually),
but
I've made alot of progress on MOST things.
Things I really care about I'm still pretty
neurotic and obsessive about levels of perfection,
and my artistic pursuits... I won't even go into the bizzarre and
unending masochims I go thru for my artistic pursuits.
but I've realized MOST of life does'nt require it.
Do the best you can at any given moment, and let it go.
YES, this took practice to acheive. About 5 years worth.
CONSTANT mantras of "it's good enough; it's NOT
*THAT* important." ... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: letting go
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 6:15 PMSeems there is a theme going on amongst us: we all believe that people are essentially good but yet we often don't believe that about ourselves. Hence our depression and dwelling on our negative thoughts - a good chunk of which (at least for me) are about myself.
As for perfectionism - my nemesis - It has screwed up such a good chunk of my life and stopped me from doing so many things. My depression is actually I coping mechanism for my perfectionism. When I start to feel out of control - read not good enough - I spiral into depression. When I am depressed I don't have to be perfect. I can just exist like a lump in a bed and be average.
I definitely need to find a new coping mechanism and let go of the regrets, the slights, the poor treatment experienced because I am always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt...R -
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Re: letting go
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 1:04 AMLady R...
What you experience with perfectionism is a classical
case. High perfectionism leading to inaction
because you don't feel like you'll be able to acheive that
level of perfection, then leading to depression,
and the cycle continues. I escaped much of that,
but that is one of the key things that my dad has experienced
most of his life... and why he's an endless procrastinator.
"I'll do it this weekend" translates to "I'll do a half assed job
sometime before the end of the year"
As a empathic child, I picked up on my dad's
neurosies, and, when I started studying psych,
I was able to put words to what I had already perceived.
I figured out early that that level of perfectionism was
pointless and unhealthy, and led to inaction.
But I developed my own breed of perfectionism.
While I was able to (forced into, really) develop
an "intellectual" self-esteem, it is very limited,
and only gets recharged after certain activities,
which, unfortunately, I have not had the money
to engage in recently, which adds to my depression;
I can't give you or anyone here, the "keys to the kingdom"
on feeling better about yourself, but I have
managed to not view most other people as superior
to me, so it works in a similar way as feeling not
so bad about yourself. With practice, this will
become automatic. You're certainly no less than
anyone else, and the very fact that you admit to
yourself that you have "stuff" and that you strive to be
better, means you're ahead of half of the people to
begin with, because most people won't
admit their own failings, even to themselves - they
REACT - by blaming their own issues as other people's
fault.
It's not a wonderful thing to think, and is only
to be kept between you're own ears....but the fact
that you do, or once thought, that you were less than others
is also not fair, and was a perception forced upon you
by people who should have known better and not
put THEIR own issues ahead of a child's welfare.
Sometimes you have to push the universe to be fair,
and, sadly, where many humans are at evolutionarily,
most people still need to be brave enough to stick up
and speak up for their own needs;
because most other people simply won't be kind
and share without being pushed to.
And, while I don't experience the kind of spiral downward
self-negative-abusive thinking like I used to, thanks
to anti-depressants, while rare, it still does happen.
If I ever figure out a clever way out of that.
I'll post it here right away...
before I patent it and publish it
and retire.
;) -
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Re: letting go
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 9:44 PM^^ you've worked hard for those realizations. thank you for sharing! i'd say it's spot on. :)
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Re: letting go
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 2:31 PMRay - so helpful - thanks for your insights. I agree, you have put a lot of thoughtful contemplation with your own life into this.
Intellectually, I get it. Emotionally, nada. Hence the years of therapy. The meds definitely deal with the chemical side but you have to do the inner work to bring your heart in line with your brain.
I was an only child. My mother experienced such attacks on her self-esteem from her parents when she was growing that she didn't want to subject her child to that. Hence, she tried to create an uber-child. Everything I did was wonderful and perfect, every whim indulged. The pressure became (and still often is) unbearable.
Like your Dad, though, I am the worst procrastinator. However, I would suffer the ends of the earth to pull off a perfect job at the last minute. College was a real bitch. Hundreds of all-nighters.
Anyway...thanks for your input. I appreciate it much.....R -
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Re: letting go
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 5:00 PMI like to share; especially any chnace
I can help someone in a place I am
or have been.
Yeah, I've always been introverted and looked inside
and was highly self-aware. And I started studying psych at age 8.
<<Intellectually, I get it. Emotionally, nada.>>
That's exactly the way my self-image is. Intellectual there;
emotionaly, I'll never be able to conceive I have value.
That bridge doesn't exist.
Interesting that the way your mom treated you,
you became the opposite. -or the extreme.
We're all here for support for each other. -
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Re: letting go
Fri, May 22, 2009 - 4:13 PM12 step programs have a lot to say on this topic. What I've learned is that my feelings of anger, resentment, hurt feelings and such harm ME. To minimize the harm I can let go of these feelings. I can forgive someone but that doesn't mean that i go back for more of the same.
Forgiving involves quite a process in 12 step. Identifying what I'm pissed about, hurt over then determining my part in it and identifying a pattern or characteristic in myself that leads me to accept this treatment from others (or myself). Then seeing the other as sick like me and praying for us.
This is really a boiled-down version and is definitely MY interpretation, but when I can do it, it works.
Being victimized as a child is a bit different. My part in that was just existing. With childhood abuses i need to look for how i perpetuate the abuse in my present day life, sometimes by chosing to be with people who treat me like my family did (badly).
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Re: letting go
Tue, May 26, 2009 - 10:53 PMI found this discussion so interesting. Even if I am late as usual. I feel like the oddball again here though. I've tried to see people as basically good but honestly, I just don't. I always figured it was my childhood (alcoholic father blah blah blah) or too many years in retail & restaurants.
As for perfectionism, well I guess I have a few things I get neurotic about (like typos, which is bad since my typing stinks. Hunt & peck anyone?) but for the most part I think I have dismally low expectations of myself.
And BTW sorry I haven't been around much. Pretty much if it can go wrong it has.
I did get a job finally. Fortunately for me not alot of dealing with the public but still so terribly dull & unfullfiiling. Blech! But it beats being broke at least for now.
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Re: letting go
Sat, June 13, 2009 - 1:56 PMI think that Ray's post about PTSD is major. There are some things that each of us has a hard time "letting go" of. That's human. I really believe, though, that if we're unable to let go of something, it's because we haven't worked through it all yet, still have more to process. This is a totally different thing from the idea of holding on to some old grudge.
But, more people with--um--unfortunate pasts have PTSD than realize it. When we didn't have the coping skills to deal with a traumatic situation when it happened, it gets burried inside somewhere, for us to try to process later. But, if this happens too often, or if the situation is so traumatic that there doesn't feel like there's any way to process it, our brains can become wired in a way that keeps us from being able to "process" traumas at the time they happen. It just feels sort of numb. But the trauma is still in there, undealt with. When those unexpressed traumatic responses begin affecting our lives to the point where we walk around in fear that some memory will be triggered, or feeling anxiety that we will be traumatized again, with no ability to escape it, that is PTSD.
With PTSD, you *can't* "let it go," because you don't know how to process trauma, in general. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The name explains it perfectly. If this sounds like you, to anyone here, stop beating yourself up and find out more about PTSD. There are a few tribes here for PTSD. One is called "Alive In Spite of PTSD." It's a very active tribe, and a good one. For me, personally, though, it doesn't always feel very safe. I moderate a private tribe called "PTSD Sanctuary." Some people here are on it. It isn't so active, maybe because it is private. But, I do know that many of us there have felt that it truly is a sanctuary. Sorry, not meaning to make a plug. I only wanted to point out that there are some good ways here at tribe to learn more about PTSD and "talk" with those who live with it.
It sounds to me, Dawn, as if maybe you could benefit from at least learning more about what PTSD is and maybe check out one of these tribes.
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