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sooooo....
my last visit with the shrink, he strongly suggested ect, as there's no treatments options left, and nothing i've tried within the last 3 years has helped.
i am completely against it and completely afraid of it, although i am struggling to be open-minded about it.... but images of frothy-mouthed, convulsing patients strapped to their beds are the only thing that come to mind when i think of it.
does anyone have anything to share about ect? i need whatever info you can give me.
thank you-
my last visit with the shrink, he strongly suggested ect, as there's no treatments options left, and nothing i've tried within the last 3 years has helped.
i am completely against it and completely afraid of it, although i am struggling to be open-minded about it.... but images of frothy-mouthed, convulsing patients strapped to their beds are the only thing that come to mind when i think of it.
does anyone have anything to share about ect? i need whatever info you can give me.
thank you-
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Portland
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Re: ect
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 11:10 AMB, I am reposting this here, since I am not sure you saw it on the other thread...
Hey B,
My shrink talked to me about ECT back in the bad old days...she recommended a pretty good book called Shock by Kitty Dukakis (Michael Dukakis' wife). It was pretty good. Here's a like to an article about it: abcnews.go.com/GMA/story
So check it out. The biggest side effect seems to be some short-term memory loss. As hard as it's been for you, it might be worth a try. You know we'll all be here for you...
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At this point, I (personally) wouldn't be as afraid of it as I had been in the past for two reasons: firstly, my psychiatrist states that it really has been helpful even as the last resort of treatment for patients she has worked with, and secondly, they have very much improved on procedures since the "One Flew Over the Cuckoo" days. I think that it has such a stigma that it is difficult to remain open-minded about it. I know I had a hard time just taking lithium (I don't anymore, but when I did, it helped), so I am sure, even though my intellect tells me that ECT would be a reasonable treatment if I had not started to find relieft with another drug. Also, I think Ray mentioned it in another thread, our depressed mind lies to us. It can, I believe, make us resistant to things that may, in fact, be helpful.
I googled ect+personal experiences for you, and these are some of the results:
www.1stpm.org/articles/ECT.html
bipolar.about.com/od/ect/a/...shock1.htm
www.ect.org/category/per...ounts/page/2/
serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology...in3.html
I think that you owe it to yourself to explore this possible treatment option. What if it really could help? Of course, depression says that it could help "anybody but me" but what if it really could help? -
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Re: ect
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 1:50 AMI, personally, have not had ECT, but someone I became
close friends with during one of my lockdowns did have
ECT twice a week. She said it helped her alot, and she did
seem in good spirits when she was not recovering from it;
and it did take alot of of her. She took alot of asprin/etc
for the headaches, and she said at first there was dizziness, but
that that had gone away a few hours after the treatment was over.
The worst part she said about ECT (at least, for her)
was the near constant nausea that accompanies recovery.
Physically, it did take alot out of her - even though we liked talking,
she needed to spend alot of time napping and staying in bed
to recover/deal with the nausea and the energy drain that the
physical aspect took from her.
I would'nt be happy about the prospect either; but I have adapted to other things
that I was'nt happy about either; because I'm a functional human being again,
and frankly, that makes it worth it.
I was >>*ADAMANT*<< about NOT taking meds when I first went into
counseling. It took my counselor 6 months to convince me to try them.
And it took 2 years before finding the right meds and balance for me.
It was a VERY difficult process, some meds made me *MORE* suicidal
(no one was more surprized than me) other meds made me so zonked
I could'nt function. Other meds messed with my hormones, and blood pressure.
I don't want anyone to know about one of the meds I'm on because it's
primary use is for people who are *REALLY* out there. But it does what I need
it to do, it helps (ALOT), It makes my PTSD manageable, so I take it anyway.
As it stands, I'm going to have to cut out one
of the meds I'm on because I've gained 150 lbs in the year and a half I've been on it.
But I would do it again. Because I'm a functional human being again,
and that makes it worth it. -
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Re: ect
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 2:18 AMRay, for what it's worth, I'm glad you take what you take. You have become a really valued and loved member of this tribe in a very short time, so whatever you're doing is working!
And I'd take fat over pain ANY day.
I think I've shared that I am on the newer version of Effexor called Pristiq, and I'm having a good response to it. One of the things I find interesting though is that I am going through a period where sometimes putting food together is just too much effort - if I were thin it would be tragic, but as it is, I am looking at this going, hey, maybe there's an up side. -
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Re: ect
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 7:45 AM"if I were thin it would be tragic, but as it is, I am looking at this going, hey, maybe there's an up side. "
:-) Hey, we take what blessings we can get, right? -
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Re: ect
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 9:45 AMi have fibromyalgia too, so i'm in pain anyway no matter what i do.
i would much rather be thin and in pain than fat and in pain. if the meds that made me fat (50 pounds of zyprexa, anyone?) worked better, i might reconsider it...
but nothing works...
and i think i am just too scared to do ect. it's just too freaky. i don't see enough testimonials from people that it's worked for... there are still too many reviews of it being damaging, frightening, and unhelpful.
i don't see any good options anywhere i turn. -
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Re: ect
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 10:02 AMthe ONLY procedural change that has happened since the days of the cuckoo's nest is that patients are now given muscle relaxants and are anesthetized during the treatment, so people are asleep and relaxed during the seizure instead of conscious and having to be restrained for the muscle spasms. i don't really see that much difference there... it's just a chemical restraint system to make it easier to manage the patient.
every time i have had to go under anesthesia, i have about 12-20 solid hours of violent nausea afterwards... i cannot imagine having to do ect 3 times a week. i would be throwing up for days on end.
it just doesn't sound all that new or improved to me.
although if i'm throwing up all the time, i suppose i could rest assured that this treatment wouldn't make me fat. -
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Re: ect
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 12:19 PMthere is no way in hell i am ever going to do ect.
i cannot find enough evidence that it would be helpful. the risks seem to outweigh the benefits, and i cannot get over the stigma. -
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Re: ect
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 2:34 PMI don't have much firm, first-hand knowledge about ect, but I have to say that I'm with you on this one, B. It just seems wrong to put that much electric current (with repeated "treatments,") through a body that wasn't designed for it.
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Re: ect
Thu, June 18, 2009 - 11:37 PMIs there anyone in this group who as had ECT???
Patrick -
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Re: ect
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 4:45 PMOnly when I stuck a fork in the toaster....
sorry I couldn't help myself... it's part of my disease.... -
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Re: ect
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 5:38 PMSeveral years ago, I had what I refer to as DIY ECT (Do It Yourself), but not quite what Scotty, um, experienced. For some reason that has not been determined, I experienced a grand mal seizure (now called tonic-clonic). Essentially, it's an electrical reset. I didn't enjoy it, but it didn't hurt nor did it bother me other than the source worrying me. I felt better after it happened (for awhile) though I had some memory issues. I don't know that I would be so quick to reject it without really finding out its efficacy. In other words, despite the stigma, I personally would consider it as a last resort. -
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Re: ect
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:17 AMi have been researching its efficacy all over the place, and i cannot find anything but conflicting reports and data.
so far all i can glean from what i've found is:
1. it works, sort of
2. it causes permanent brain damage (to varying degrees)
3. you relapse when you stop doing it
4. repeated exposure to the anesthetic wreaks havoc upon the body with its toxicity
5. you can't ever take it back (see permanent brain damage)
6. you lose at least a day on the day you use it, sometimes more than that
i don't see enough potential benefit to offset the risks. my intuition screams "NO".
my shrink actually agrees with me after further thought about it. he doesn't think i am a good candidate for it after all because of my fibromyalgia and muscle spasms, which are sometimes made worse by this treatment.
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Re: ect
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:49 AMHey b, I wasn't suggesting it was THE THING for you. I was merely stating that I'd keep it as a last resort FOR ME, and shared my experience with my own seizure (which is, after all, what ECT is). I think that each of us has to weigh very carefully what we do for ourselves.
Has anyone had any success with accupuncture for depression? I have had really good success with it when dealing with neurological problems I get in my shoulders (the shoulder equivalent of sciatica, which I ALSO get - lucky me!).
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Re: ect
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 10:00 AMacupuncture rocks, darla, i try to get it once a week if i can. i've found a clinic that is willing to trade with me so i go as often as possible. it helps more with my pmdd and back pain more than anything else, but it's also been helpful for the sinusitis, bronchitis, and allergies. i think it helps with the depression and insomnia too. i always sleep better after i've had a treatment.
i do acupressure on myself sometimes too, it can really help with the trigger points of the fibromyalgia. plus when my sinuses are so bad i can't even lay down, there are points on the arms and wrists you can apply pressure to that absolutely make it all drain away. amazing. it doesn't last as long as sudafed, but then again it doesn't make me feel like i'm cracked out on meth...
acupuncture seems to help my pain levels too. i wish i could get it every day, if that's even possible... i don't know that it's recommended that often, ever, as it takes a bit for the full effects to take place, as i understand it.
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Re: ect
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 5:31 PMHey, b...
I certainly want to put this as compassionately and
sensitively as possible, but you say
that 'you've tried it all'. This seems,
from my own perspective, to be an
exadaration. If you're against ECT, which,
you cited valid reasons for ... then it seems like
another try with something else may be in order...
maybe a different med cocktail...maybe a nutritional avenue
you havn't explored yet....
I'm just trying to say there's *ALOT* of different plans, ideas,
techniques, meds, etc...and it would be difficult to go thru *ALL*
of them in various permutations. You may have tried many, many
meds, but there are new ones all the time, and while some may be off
the list permanently, some others may just need another agent to
work...
I know from my own experience, and continuing into right now
(literally) that trying this and that, that and this,
is a laborius, tedious, annoying, and (fill-in-the-blank)
process (task), and it's easy to get frustrated and
'have enough', and make you want to quit trying new
avenues, but working and trying new ideas/avenues/plans
is what will eventually lead to a workable solution.
It's also important to make sure that you DON'T blame
yourself for "failures"; and it's also VERY important to have
a GOOD team of professionals on your side.
Crappy docs can be as bad as the problem itself,
and they may not be assisting you in ways that help.
I feel lucky that I have fairly good care, but there are times that
I question their help, and there are times that I must correct their
errors - it's important to stick up for yourself, too, especially with
this kind of stuff. I know it may not be easy, or native for you
to speak up - it certainly was'nt for me; I had to learn;
but it's important to speak your mind and perceptions
to the people you work with. GOOD docs will see this
as a healthy thing and will work with you.
BAD docs may see such things as part of your "problem" and
may have a tendency to ignore.....
So, what have you tried?
PM me if you want to keep it personal.
Hang in there! you have friends here!
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Re: my own current struggle...
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 5:42 PMI said that I'm going thru my own tedious process now;
which I am, and wanted to share.
As I've said many a time, I'm on seroquel;
which while it helps me, has also
raised my cholestrerol, blood pressure, and has caused
me to become borderline diabetic, and, most importantly,
has added over 100 lbs to my belly, in the space of about
a year, so I need to get off the seroquel.
I'm in the process of trying new meds as a replacement
for seroq, and some meds I'm not happy about trying; because I
remember other times in the past how difficult a process it was.
Zyprexa made me a zombie, paxil worked and then didn't,
ambien did'nt give me the same good sleep as seroquel,
abilify made me *MORE* suicidal....prozac
had absolutely ZERO effect... zoloft made me even more hyper.....
and panic attacks...
*FUN* stuff; and I'm not happy about having to do it again;
but I must do what I need for my health.
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Re: ect
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 4:09 PMRay,
She has tried quite a lot of stuff, which she shared with us well before you started showing up here. In addition b has a number of non-mental physical issues, and financial issues, that make it difficult for her to do some things you and I might consider easy (such as adding exercise, or eating special foods). I don't recall the full list, but I think she's made a serious effort to work on this. She's not just throwing up her hands in failure because things didn't work out the first time.
The fact that she's still here, and can still laugh when Scotty is funny, is a testament to just how strong she is. And on top of that, she still manages to do the research and say no to the ECT. B is an incredible person. I would love it if she found some other ways to handle her problems, but I know that it is so much more difficult for her than it is for me.
So I appreciate what you are saying, but maybe let her work that through for herself. Unless she asks for help, of course. -
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Re: ect
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 7:59 AMoh my goodness bundt,
thank you for the vote of confidence, that's very, very sweet of you.
ray- i'm just telling you what the doctors (and other practioners) tell me-- they pretty much throw up their hands in the air when i show up these days. no one knows what to recommend to me any more, and the few treatment options i have left are the "last-resort-measures-of-desperation" that aren't likely to help me anyway, so it's difficult to see making that choice.
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